Kaze No ryu detta anche Ogawa Ryu

questa scuola sta prendendo sempre più piede sia in Europa che in Brasile, dove è stata inizialmente proprosta.
Sul sito internet vanta una discendenza Giapponese piuttosto fumosa ed un curriculum impressionante... dal Kyudo alla cerimonia del Tè....
La parte di Jujustu è stata proposta più volte sulla rivista BUDO e devo dire che i video che si trovano su Youtube sono molto ben fatti e con praticanti ben sopra la media... tecniche precise, veloci.
Purtroppo l'opinione comune abbastanza consolidata (e dovuta a molte, moltissime  prove indiziarie) è che sia l'ennesima arte raffazzonata...BEN raffazzonata, ma sempre inventata di sana pianta.

Nei vari forum:
- Un   praticante di Kyudo afferma che nei loro libri usano l'arco AL CONTRARIO
- Un Praticante di Chanoyu dice che quello che fanno è molto strano
- Diversi praticanti di Kenjutsu trovano a che ridire sulla loro pratica
- In un post di un ex praticante si afferma che tutto è stato creato man mano negli anni per assomigliare  a qualcosa di "antico"


VIDEO DI BUDO:


Discussione su INTK Forum:
http://www.intk-token.it/forum/index.php?showtopic=5594&st=0
Molto interessante...

Discussione su E-BUDO:
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36120

Discussione su Bullshido:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums showthread.php?s=02a933a1046406ce6b688cef5cbf4da8&t=35962&page=2

Il fatto che i praticanti in video siano bravi è fuor di dubbio.. ma la domanda è sempre la stessa...

PERCHEKAISER DEVO INVENTARE UN LINEAGE ANTICO SE QUELLO CHE FACCIO E' BUONO?
Forse perchè quello che faccio non è così buono:

Questa una disquisizione punto per punto sulla storia della scuola come pubblicata sul loro sito:

....

..."Kaze no Ryu Bugei is the “martial art like the wind”.

It's actually more like martial culture of the Wind Style, although properly it would be called Fuuryu. Hmm. Where did I hear that name before? No "like."

...It was developed by the Shizen people, who inhabited the forests of Hokkaido, in the north of Japan, during the Kamakura era (1192 – 1333).

No such people. Shizen just means "natural." As in All Natural Organic vegetables. Natural herbs. To my knowledge no such "tribe" called "The Naturals" existed in Japan.

During that time, the art was called “Uchiu Shizen” which means “dominion over nature and space”.

...More like "Outer Space Natural." More to the point, it doesn't make much senes in Japanese.

The origin of the Shizen is linked to the Ainu (the true natives of Japan, who are closer ethnically to Caucasians than to the Japanese) who were forced into the north of Japan for centuries.

People used to think that but I believe that recent DNA tests show that they are probably more Mongol (North Asian) than Caucasian, related to Mongolians, Mancurians and other North Asian (and North North American Native Americans) than Caucasians.

...Documents from the year 801 indicate that the Ainu tribes were defeated in the north by Tamuramaro Sakanoue (Oscar Ratti).

I'm not sure of Ratti's source, but splitting hairs, I believe that documents called those northern tribes "barbarians" or Emishi, and Emishi is a problematic word that doesn't describe Ainu per se. The Emishi may have been some Ainu tribes, but they may have also included simply groups who didn't want to have anything to do with the Imperial Court, but were ethnically and culturally of the same culture.

...Four villages comprised the Shizen people: Kawa, Yabu, Tayo and Yama.

Ah...Nope.

...The Shizen developed their own language – “Shizen-go” –

"Natural language?" Baby talk? Shizen-go makes no sense.

...as well as their own religion, the “O-Chikara” – based on the cult of natural forces, called Tengu.

O-Chikara: Honorable Strength? Big Strength? Tengu are demons, considered forces of nature, but not all of natural forces.

...The Bugei taught by the SBB comes from the Ogawa Shizen Kay school, which descends from the village of Kawa. History confirms that the "Kaze no Ryu" was established by Yorike Mizuguchi who, influenced by Choisai Iizasa and with the help of the Japanese “kami” (gods), changed the direction of the martial ways of the Shizen.

"History" as in what reference? Certainly not in the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten or the Honcho Bugei Shoden, where one would think it would be listed, especially if it had links to the TSKR and Iizasa line.

... Yorike Mizuguchi, who later changed his name to Manabo Ogawa, is the root of the Ogawa family tree. Yorike was a priest who believed that messages from the gods were the basis of his development. Manabo is recognized by the priests as the Kokeisha (direct successor) of the traditional lineage of the village of Kawa.

? Priest...as in Shinto priest? My understanding is that a whole village doesn't inherit a Shinto lineage, but this may be my own bad reading of the translation.

Yes. At least no ninja visions in a dream, but aliens from outer space ate my brain if I believed all this. Oddly, though, they attack the fabrication of their lineage as vigorously as they do their techniques. Lots of work went into this, but WHY in Heaven's name go through all that trouble when you could just hop on a plane and study something legit and return, rather than live out a lie? Why? Why do I keep receiving spams for helping little old millionairre ladies from Nigeria or North Korea? Why are there bogus Medal of Honor winners? Why do these guys fascinate me in a sick way?

Wayne Muromoto

questo uno scritto di una persona che ha praticato con loro agli inizi

I know them. I`ve trained with them.

My first knowledge about Shidoshi Jordan Augusto was in 94 in a brazilian martial arts magazine in which he was presented as a master of Daito ryu. My father contacted the magazine so we could reach this, as far as we believed, only master of Daito ryu residing in Brazil. After four months we were able to contact his students who then explained that they actually trained an ancient japanese religion called "Bugei Art" that involved more than 18 physical disciplines and 36 spiritual ones.

Just to put into context, back in 94 there was no internet and very little trustworth bibliograph was avaiable in brazilian bookstores. I had some books(in english) that had such pearls of wisdom like "Jujutsu then became judo" or "samurai praticed karate"...and i was eighteen

After three years of correspondency and many invitations for Shidoshi to come to my city to teach, it was only after i left the Aikido organization that he accepted to come.

It was 1997 and i decided to do a Workshop on Kenjutsu on my own(talking about frogs on wells, in my ignorance i thought that my video based aikiken was kenjutsu...and the worst, most people agreed for the lack of references...) and he came with some students. He participated on the seminar and demonstrated "Daito ryu Aikijujutsu" and "Kaze no ryu Kenjutsu"(the no meaning, acording to him, the possessive particle, thus rendering the name "Tradition of the wind").

I had a very extremely completely lame Aikido so he looked amazing.

Two months later i went to Goiânia(his hometown) for a month to stay in his house for some practice. And after my return to my city i brought him to teach a workshop on "Jojutsu"("Gonnosuke`s method").

Althought i was very well treated and enjoyed tremendously the practice i deeply disliked the religious aspect(animism with guiding spirits who had very tendencious advices for me towards martial arts and personal life...).

About the technique

Jordan`s technique seems very much like a blend of good Yoshinkan and good Judo, trained without the emphasis on grabing the gi. His weapons are definetly Aikido type. He studies alot of videos thus he is able to increase his repertoire with kata he adds and them blends into his "tradition".

So, what`s wrong?

As i mentioned, at first he taught three diferent Koryu in his "Bugei Art"(as it was called back then): Daito ryu, Shindo Muso ryu and Kaze no ryu. He also explained how the term Bugei refered specifically to his school(if it is called Bugei, it is related to him and his school...).

As in 98 me and my father finally got internet and found KoryuBooks, Mugendo Budogu and Tozando, we were able to buy fantastic books and videos...and contact people from koryu budo.

And what a surprise it was to see how "diferent" Kenji Matsui`s Shindo Muso ryu was from Jordan`s...

When i mentioned this to him he simplely said that what he taught in the workshop was "Kaze no ryu Jojutsu"(not quite what he said on the video my father made of that seminar...). After extra six months he was explaining that actually it was Kaze no ryu Bugei, which included Aikijujutsu, Kumiuchi, Jojutsu, Kenjutsu, Sojutsu, Naginata jutsu, tanto jutsu, hojo jutsu, okinawan weapons(yes!)...and that it was a secret martial art of the Ainu people.
Yes, Ainu.

The ranks were also very unusual, starting with Kohai, seito(first level up to third as i recall), deshi, uchideshi and goes on(i really don`t remember it all, but i have it written down). The exam`s fees were also unusual in which they would cost from U$300(for the first levels) til U$1000...and for Brazil those prices were even higher than they sound for you folks on US...

Also, there was an unhealth atmosphere of formality...in the presence of Jordan students were expect to sit in seiza and remain in silence, avoid eye contact and treat him in the same manner one sees daimyo being treated in samurai movies. And i won`t go into the nasty details(and they exist).

From 97 to 99 Jordan was able to gain a large following and lots of money...but even though most of his students were originally friends of mine, all of them had cut contact with me and my father for no particular reason...and when i would stumble on them in a mall or such they would be extremely formal("greetings Renato san/sensei...i hope all is fine with you and your family").

In 2000 the bomb fell...i was on the beach and was greeted by two friends who had entered on the "Kaze no ryu Bugei".

Well, let`s say that ALL his students had left, some were suing him, and them they proceeded to tell me what the students were recquired to do...including the fact that it was forbidden to mantain contact with me and my father, at the cost of being expelt.

Present status.

As i said before, Jordan is very skilled and has an amazing charisma. He is also very quick into improving/fixing his art. And i inadvertly have helped him in doing so with a hot debate i had on the Orkut-based community "Kenjutsu - Kendo" were i listed all the incongruences of his "Koryu", among which was the name. Now he uses the name Ogawa ryu instead of Kazeno ryu(which he still uses, but with the reading "direction of the wind" instead of "Wind school") and has "fixed" all the most obvious absurds on his claim of being a legitm koryu(except the Ainu nonsense, but he will most likely do it, sooner or later) .

Conclusion

The empty hand techniques are good (better than most average Aikido & Judo), the weapons are so-so and the cultural aspect is confuse.

All in all it is very much like Saigo ha Daito ryu.
And not something i would recomend.
__________________
Renato Costa de Alcântara

Sono sempre presenti con un articolo su Budo International, stanno facendo un operazione di marketing massiccia.

La cosa ovviamente mi infastidisce. Basta che non leggo gli articoli, ma è come vedersi sempre un cartellone pubblicitario davanti 

Quello che penso ormai è che è gente sempre in cerca di adepti. Di certo questo non è un atteggiamento da Koryu!

è da dire che Budo International è fondamentalmente una rivista pubblicitaria...tipo quelle che si trovano dai parrucchieri...

a me sto tipo sta simpatico,ha la faccia da orsacchiotto morbidoso anche quando fa l'espressione dura...

su quello che fanno,non ci metto lingua...

è da dire che Budo International è fondamentalmente una rivista pubblicitaria...tipo quelle che si trovano dai parrucchieri...

a me sto tipo sta simpatico,ha la faccia da orsacchiotto morbidoso anche quando fa l'espressione dura...

su quello che fanno,non ci metto lingua...

Ma si, infatti Budo International è veramente rivista che dovresti trovare dai parrucchieri 

Ho creato dei post su Carta Stampata perché volevo esprimere il mio disagio sul fato che non conosco riviste in Italia di arti marziali che mi piacciono. Una volta prendevo Arte d'Oriente e non mi dispiaceva affatto. Poi ha chiuso e sono rimasto col cilo per terra  :'(

il responsabile per l'Italia è un utente del FAM
ora controllo se è anche qui
comunque l'ho incontrato di persona è mi ha fatto una bella impressione
come persona calma e posata
oggi si direbbe "un moderato"

Quote from: nameganai on May 17, 2011, 07:43:40 am

è da dire che Budo International è fondamentalmente una rivista pubblicitaria...tipo quelle che si trovano dai parrucchieri...

a me sto tipo sta simpatico,ha la faccia da orsacchiotto morbidoso anche quando fa l'espressione dura...

su quello che fanno,non ci metto lingua...

Ma si, infatti Budo International è veramente rivista che dovresti trovare dai parrucchieri 

Ho creato dei post su Carta Stampata perché volevo esprimere il mio disagio sul fato che non conosco riviste in Italia di arti marziali che mi piacciono. Una volta prendevo Arte d'Oriente e non mi dispiaceva affatto. Poi ha chiuso e sono rimasto col cilo per terra  :'(

Da dire che io ho faticato parecchio per farmi recapitare Samurai dal mio edicolante di fiducia, altrimenti sono ancora inchiodato a Budo International.

Io ho solo una domanda da fare: ma l'arco non si impugna come si stà più comodi? (Domanda idiota da uno che qualche volta c'ha giocherellato)

il responsabile per l'Italia è un utente del FAM
ora controllo se è anche qui
comunque l'ho incontrato di persona è mi ha fatto una bella impressione
come persona calma e posata
oggi si direbbe "un moderato"

Nessuno mette in dubbio la personalità degli esponenti italiani di Ogawa Ryu, noto semplicemente che è assai insolito per una scuola che si nomina koryu, farsi una così sterminata pubblicità non solo su Budo International ma anche su You Tube. Sembra che siano alla ricerca di una legittimità o comunque di un riconoscimento nell'ambito marziale. Questo atteggiamento pero' stride di molto con l'attitudine e i metodi delle koryu tradizionali. Poi ognuno faccia quello che vuole, basta però che ci sia onestà.
Per esempio a me non è affatto chiaro se Ogawa Ryu abbia dei makimono (originali pergamene di trasmissione) di qualche koryu riconosciuta ufficialmente dalla federazione giapponese che racchiude in se le koryu principali del Sol Levante.
Questo può essere anche una cosa poco rilevante per molti, ma se si sfoderano atteggiamenti da vecchia scuola invece la cosa incomincia ad assumere una certa importanza di tipo intellettuale. Non vorrei ripetermi con quello che già ha espresso molte volte Changelling...

mm
troppo complicato per me
io so solo che ho visto delle cose interessanti
e che ci sarà occasione, vedrò se la persona mi mostra qualcosa