"Qi" nelle AM cinesi

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Offline Yuen-Ming

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"Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« on: May 03, 2010, 12:16:58 pm »
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Ho visto che anche Jarek ha tradotto parte di quel materiale che citavo qui:
Per chi vuole leggere dei legami tra "qi" ed arti marziali e vuole comprendere quanto questi non siano legati alla (moderna) dicotomia di 'interno/esterno' consiglio il buon studio di Marnix Wells: Scholar Boxer (North Atlantic Books) che in maniera precisa descrive il concetto di "Qi Centrale"

http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=PFX_mij2eP8C&lpg=PA5&ots=OuEeRjDOCg&dq=chang%20naizhou%20qi&hl=en&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q=central%20energy&f=false

YM

quindi invito a leggere la sua pagina http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/otherstyles/CNZbook.html che quoto:

Excerpts from "The Book of Chang Family Boxing"

by Chang Naizhou

 PART ONE
 
On Central Qi

Translated from Chinese by Jarek Szymanski; © J.Szymanski 2000

Central Qi (Zhong Qi, Vital Energy of the Center) is the one that Taoist classics call Primary Yang (Yuan Yang) and medical books call Primary Qi (Yuan Qi). It resides in the center of human body. Hence in martial arts it is called Central Qi. This Qi is the Primordial True Qi (Xiantian Zhen Yi Qi).
 
If practiced in spiritual way (Wen, in stillness) it becomes Internal Elixir (Nei Dan). If practiced in martial way (Wu, in movement) it becomes External Elixir (Wai Dan). However no (people) achieved Internal Elixir without borrowing External Elixir (practice methods). This is because movement and stillness come one from the other. Gently Nourishing (Qi in stillness) is the appropriate method. The miracle of embryo creation (Jie Tai) and Returning to Original State (Huan Yuan) comes from this (method). Ordinary students do not know the origins of Central Qi and only devote their efforts to practice of external movements. (Those who) desire to reach high level of Qi development (literally "enter Primary Gate" - Ru Yuan Qiao), should not (only focus on external movements).
 
A human being receives Primordial Spirit (Xiantian Zhi Shen) by transforming Qi, gathers Qi by transforming Vitality (Jing). When mother and father have sexual intercourse the Vitality (is given) and at the beginning it condensates inside the Xuwei Point. Xuwei Point has navel in front and kidneys behind (e.g. lies between navel and kidneys). (It is) neither higher nor lower, towards the right or left, the front or back, not inclined to one side or another. It resides right in the center of the body. It is called Heavenly Root (Tian Gen) and Gate of Life (Ming Men). Book of Change (Yi Jing) calls it Taiji. True Yin and True Yang both reside there and Spirit (Shen) firmly holds on to it.

The capability of this Qi is clear. It brings into existence the spirits of Five Internal Organs (Wu Zang): Spirit (Shen) of the heart, Spirit (Hun) of the liver, Intention (Yi) of the spleen, Spirit (Po) of the lungs, Vitality (Jing) and Will (Zhi) of the kidneys. (All these spirits) are directed by this (Qi). Breathing yields to it. Inhaling Qi of Heaven and Earth, exhaling Qi of Five Internal Organs.

Exhaling starts from Gate of Life (Ming Men) and goes through kidneys, then liver, then spleen, then heart to lungs.

Inhaling starts from lungs and goes through heart, then spleen, then liver, then kidneys to Gate of Life.

Twelve Main Channels (Jing) and fifteen Collateral Channels (Luo) are (Qi) circulating system. The main and collateral channels (Jingluo) are the paths of Qi and blood. When a man exhales, Qi and blood move by (the distance of) three inches. (One) breath is defined as (one) inhalation and (one) exhalation. (During one breath Qi and blood) move (by the distance of) six inches. A man during one day and one night takes thirteen thousand and five hundred breaths. In a day and night (Qi and blood) move by eight hundred and ten Zhang (unit of length, =3 and 1/3 m). Yang moves by twenty five degrees, Yin also moves by twenty five degrees, which is in total fifty degrees in one day and night. (Qi and blood) circulate within (all parts of the) body, come out of Internal Organs (Zangfu, e.g. Wuzang - Five Internal Organs: heart, liver, spleen, lungs, kidneys, and Liufu - Six Hollow Organs: gallbladder, stomach, large intestine, small intestine, bladder and Sanjiao) and enter the channels, from channels flow into internal organs.

In this way two Poles (Yi) emerge, e.g. kidneys and bones [left kidney is Yang, right kidney is Yin].

Kidneys are the organs belonging to Water. Water creates Wood. Liver is the organ belonging to Wood, it produces tendons. Tendons are attached to bones. Thus when liver is created, tendons grow. Wood creates Fire. Heart is the organ belonging to Fire; it governs blood circulation. Fire creates Earth. Spleen is the organ belonging to Earth, it produces muscles. Earth creates Metal. Lungs are the organs belonging to Metal. They govern skin and hair. Thus when spleen is created, skin and hair grow. Five Internal Organs grow in this order. Six Hollow Organs are created in this order.

The Shape (Xing) comes into being because of True Qi (Zhen Yi Zhi Qi) combining in wonderful way - through concentration. It (e.g. Qi) moves into one hundred (e.g. all) bones and resides there. One but on the other hand two (e.g. Qi and Xing). Two but on the other hand one. They cannot leave (each other) even for a moment. Martial arts are like this. Shape is refined to achieve external harmony. Qi is refined to firm the inside. Solid and hard as iron. One acquires the body of Golden Elixir (Jin Dan) that can never be ruined, and transcends worldliness and attains holiness, ascends the highest level. Like clouds, (one) is not afraid of the enemy as he (the enemy) is so small.
 


 On Joining and Supporting of Yin and Yang
 

Refining the Shape is not beyond Yin and Yang. How will one practice if Yin and Yang are not clear? The Du Channel in Taoist classics goes along the middle of the back and commands all Yang Channels. Ren Channel goes along the front of the body (Fu, literally: belly) and commands all Yin Channels. That is why back is considered Yang and front of the body is considered Yin. Both channels meet at Hui Yin at the bottom, and at the gums at the top. South and north, they are opposite like midnight and noon. Or like Kan trigram which resides at the center of north, and Li trigram that resides at the center of south, not easy to define.

Bending forward posture is a Yin posture, but it joins Yang Qi and is beneficial to Du Channel. It leads Qi of all Yang channels, and returns completely to the front of the top.

Bending backward posture is a Yang posture, but it joins Yin Qi and is beneficial to Ren Channel. It leads Qi of all Yin channels, and returns completely to the back of the top.

On Moving Qi
 

The point of contact (Luo Dian) is hard and solid. Fierce and brave, irresistible. (It) relies on Qi of the whole body, but yet (Qi must) concentrate in one place. Nevertheless, it can be used without loss of Qi. It is harmful if Qi is lost or pulled. It means that one does not know the method of Moving Qi (Guo Qi). All Qi of the body has its beginning in the Gate of Life, which is the source of Qi. Qi is manifested in four ends, which fill with Qi. (Qi) flows along (its) paths. Generally (speaking) Qi must not be sluggish nor pulled and only then can flow beneficially (for health), be nimble and unfathomable.
 

Hence upper Qi is in the bottom, so the bottom (must) not be pulled (e.g. stopped) if (one) wants to move downwards.

Lower Qi is on the top, so the top must not be sluggished if (one) wants to move upwards.

Front Qi is in the back, so the front will naturally enter if (one) smoothens the back.

Back Qi is in the front, so the back will naturally go away if (one) regulates the front.

Left Qi is in the right, so pay attention to the right.

Right Qi is in the left, so pay attention to the left.

For instance, in straight strike with palm, Qi should flow forward. If the other hand is not pulled back by the elbow, (then) Qi is not allowed to flow forward from the back. In upward strike, if the other hand does not insert (e.g. move downward) and shoulder does not drop, (then) Qi is not allowed to flow upward from ribs.

In separating techniques, if the chest does not open, then Qi is not allowed to flow backward. In embracing techniques, if the chest does not open (should be: close), then Qi is not allowed to wrap the front. While rising (Qi), (one) must hook the foot. While falling (Luo) (one) must draw back the crown of the head. Qi of left hand is in the right leg, Qi of right hand is in the left leg. In bending forward posture, tumbling posture and forward exploring posture, lift the heel of the rear foot. In dropping, sink arms. In lifting posture, turn over the feet. In tumbling, do not lift up feet (because you) may hit the ground with (your) head. In kicking do not straighten the leg, (but) consider drawing it back. Expand and strengthen it. All postures are like that.
 
 To summarize it - during contact Qi moves to one place. (However) Qi does not come from one place. Its paths will be smooth only if (you) dredge its source and clear its course. (Your will) suffer from being sluggish (stagnant) or pulled Qi (and you will) not progress unless (you) advance gradually and dig in at every step, .

On Coupling Hardness with Softness
 
Each posture, within three points, has always one point of contact. Qi, within three extremes, has always one when it is used. This is called (when) revolving, Yin turns into Yin with Yang in-between, and Yang turns into Yang with Yin in-between.

Place of contact is the place where Qi gathers and blood condensates, (to where they) move. Appropriate use of hard method (means) combining Yin and Yang (and) this benefits Qi circulation. Appropriate use of soft method does not go beyond this (either). If using only hard method Qi is seized all over the body, stagnant and not nimble. The point of contact is certainly neither fierce nor brave. If using only soft method, Qi is dispersed and not gathered and there is no place it goes to. Point of contact is not hard nor solid. (When one) should use hardness but (there is still some) softness (at the same time), then Qi does not (completely) concentrate; (When one) should use softness but (there is still some) hardness (at the same time), then Qi does not (completely) disperse.
 
(This person) has not received the secret of coupling (hardness with softness). Hence (that who is) good at using hardness and softness is like a dragonfly skimming the surface of the water; just touches it lightly and immediately flies upwards. Move Qi like a windmill, rotate and roll (it) without stopping. In this way hardness and softness are used properly. Only then one will not suffer from deficient and not firm, unsmooth, not nimble Qi.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

End of "Excerpts from 'Book on Chang Family Boxing' by Chang Naizhou - Part One"; © J.Szymanski 2000


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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 13:39:17 pm »
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Questo libro lo consiglio a tutti.  :-*

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Offline *Cherry*Blossom*

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 19:12:52 pm »
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Ho visto che anche Jarek ha tradotto parte di quel materiale che citavo qui:
Per chi vuole leggere dei legami tra "qi" ed arti marziali e vuole comprendere quanto questi non siano legati alla (moderna) dicotomia di 'interno/esterno' consiglio il buon studio di Marnix Wells: Scholar Boxer (North Atlantic Books) che in maniera precisa descrive il concetto di "Qi Centrale"

http://books.google.com.hk/books?id=PFX_mij2eP8C&lpg=PA5&ots=OuEeRjDOCg&dq=chang%20naizhou%20qi&hl=en&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q=central%20energy&f=false

YM

quindi invito a leggere la sua pagina http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/otherstyles/CNZbook.html che quoto:

Excerpts from "The Book of Chang Family Boxing"

by Chang Naizhou

 PART ONE
 
On Central Qi

Translated from Chinese by Jarek Szymanski; © J.Szymanski 2000

Central Qi (Zhong Qi, Vital Energy of the Center) is the one that Taoist classics call Primary Yang (Yuan Yang) and medical books call Primary Qi (Yuan Qi). It resides in the center of human body. Hence in martial arts it is called Central Qi. This Qi is the Primordial True Qi (Xiantian Zhen Yi Qi).
 
If practiced in spiritual way (Wen, in stillness) it becomes Internal Elixir (Nei Dan). If practiced in martial way (Wu, in movement) it becomes External Elixir (Wai Dan). However no (people) achieved Internal Elixir without borrowing External Elixir (practice methods). This is because movement and stillness come one from the other. Gently Nourishing (Qi in stillness) is the appropriate method. The miracle of embryo creation (Jie Tai) and Returning to Original State (Huan Yuan) comes from this (method). Ordinary students do not know the origins of Central Qi and only devote their efforts to practice of external movements. (Those who) desire to reach high level of Qi development (literally "enter Primary Gate" - Ru Yuan Qiao), should not (only focus on external movements).
 
A human being receives Primordial Spirit (Xiantian Zhi Shen) by transforming Qi, gathers Qi by transforming Vitality (Jing). When mother and father have sexual intercourse the Vitality (is given) and at the beginning it condensates inside the Xuwei Point. Xuwei Point has navel in front and kidneys behind (e.g. lies between navel and kidneys). (It is) neither higher nor lower, towards the right or left, the front or back, not inclined to one side or another. It resides right in the center of the body. It is called Heavenly Root (Tian Gen) and Gate of Life (Ming Men). Book of Change (Yi Jing) calls it Taiji. True Yin and True Yang both reside there and Spirit (Shen) firmly holds on to it.

The capability of this Qi is clear. It brings into existence the spirits of Five Internal Organs (Wu Zang): Spirit (Shen) of the heart, Spirit (Hun) of the liver, Intention (Yi) of the spleen, Spirit (Po) of the lungs, Vitality (Jing) and Will (Zhi) of the kidneys. (All these spirits) are directed by this (Qi). Breathing yields to it. Inhaling Qi of Heaven and Earth, exhaling Qi of Five Internal Organs.

Exhaling starts from Gate of Life (Ming Men) and goes through kidneys, then liver, then spleen, then heart to lungs.

Inhaling starts from lungs and goes through heart, then spleen, then liver, then kidneys to Gate of Life.

Twelve Main Channels (Jing) and fifteen Collateral Channels (Luo) are (Qi) circulating system. The main and collateral channels (Jingluo) are the paths of Qi and blood. When a man exhales, Qi and blood move by (the distance of) three inches. (One) breath is defined as (one) inhalation and (one) exhalation. (During one breath Qi and blood) move (by the distance of) six inches. A man during one day and one night takes thirteen thousand and five hundred breaths. In a day and night (Qi and blood) move by eight hundred and ten Zhang (unit of length, =3 and 1/3 m). Yang moves by twenty five degrees, Yin also moves by twenty five degrees, which is in total fifty degrees in one day and night. (Qi and blood) circulate within (all parts of the) body, come out of Internal Organs (Zangfu, e.g. Wuzang - Five Internal Organs: heart, liver, spleen, lungs, kidneys, and Liufu - Six Hollow Organs: gallbladder, stomach, large intestine, small intestine, bladder and Sanjiao) and enter the channels, from channels flow into internal organs.

In this way two Poles (Yi) emerge, e.g. kidneys and bones [left kidney is Yang, right kidney is Yin].

Kidneys are the organs belonging to Water. Water creates Wood. Liver is the organ belonging to Wood, it produces tendons. Tendons are attached to bones. Thus when liver is created, tendons grow. Wood creates Fire. Heart is the organ belonging to Fire; it governs blood circulation. Fire creates Earth. Spleen is the organ belonging to Earth, it produces muscles. Earth creates Metal. Lungs are the organs belonging to Metal. They govern skin and hair. Thus when spleen is created, skin and hair grow. Five Internal Organs grow in this order. Six Hollow Organs are created in this order.

The Shape (Xing) comes into being because of True Qi (Zhen Yi Zhi Qi) combining in wonderful way - through concentration. It (e.g. Qi) moves into one hundred (e.g. all) bones and resides there. One but on the other hand two (e.g. Qi and Xing). Two but on the other hand one. They cannot leave (each other) even for a moment. Martial arts are like this. Shape is refined to achieve external harmony. Qi is refined to firm the inside. Solid and hard as iron. One acquires the body of Golden Elixir (Jin Dan) that can never be ruined, and transcends worldliness and attains holiness, ascends the highest level. Like clouds, (one) is not afraid of the enemy as he (the enemy) is so small.
 


 On Joining and Supporting of Yin and Yang
 

Refining the Shape is not beyond Yin and Yang. How will one practice if Yin and Yang are not clear? The Du Channel in Taoist classics goes along the middle of the back and commands all Yang Channels. Ren Channel goes along the front of the body (Fu, literally: belly) and commands all Yin Channels. That is why back is considered Yang and front of the body is considered Yin. Both channels meet at Hui Yin at the bottom, and at the gums at the top. South and north, they are opposite like midnight and noon. Or like Kan trigram which resides at the center of north, and Li trigram that resides at the center of south, not easy to define.

Bending forward posture is a Yin posture, but it joins Yang Qi and is beneficial to Du Channel. It leads Qi of all Yang channels, and returns completely to the front of the top.

Bending backward posture is a Yang posture, but it joins Yin Qi and is beneficial to Ren Channel. It leads Qi of all Yin channels, and returns completely to the back of the top.

On Moving Qi
 

The point of contact (Luo Dian) is hard and solid. Fierce and brave, irresistible. (It) relies on Qi of the whole body, but yet (Qi must) concentrate in one place. Nevertheless, it can be used without loss of Qi. It is harmful if Qi is lost or pulled. It means that one does not know the method of Moving Qi (Guo Qi). All Qi of the body has its beginning in the Gate of Life, which is the source of Qi. Qi is manifested in four ends, which fill with Qi. (Qi) flows along (its) paths. Generally (speaking) Qi must not be sluggish nor pulled and only then can flow beneficially (for health), be nimble and unfathomable.
 

Hence upper Qi is in the bottom, so the bottom (must) not be pulled (e.g. stopped) if (one) wants to move downwards.

Lower Qi is on the top, so the top must not be sluggished if (one) wants to move upwards.

Front Qi is in the back, so the front will naturally enter if (one) smoothens the back.

Back Qi is in the front, so the back will naturally go away if (one) regulates the front.

Left Qi is in the right, so pay attention to the right.

Right Qi is in the left, so pay attention to the left.

For instance, in straight strike with palm, Qi should flow forward. If the other hand is not pulled back by the elbow, (then) Qi is not allowed to flow forward from the back. In upward strike, if the other hand does not insert (e.g. move downward) and shoulder does not drop, (then) Qi is not allowed to flow upward from ribs.

In separating techniques, if the chest does not open, then Qi is not allowed to flow backward. In embracing techniques, if the chest does not open (should be: close), then Qi is not allowed to wrap the front. While rising (Qi), (one) must hook the foot. While falling (Luo) (one) must draw back the crown of the head. Qi of left hand is in the right leg, Qi of right hand is in the left leg. In bending forward posture, tumbling posture and forward exploring posture, lift the heel of the rear foot. In dropping, sink arms. In lifting posture, turn over the feet. In tumbling, do not lift up feet (because you) may hit the ground with (your) head. In kicking do not straighten the leg, (but) consider drawing it back. Expand and strengthen it. All postures are like that.
 
 To summarize it - during contact Qi moves to one place. (However) Qi does not come from one place. Its paths will be smooth only if (you) dredge its source and clear its course. (Your will) suffer from being sluggish (stagnant) or pulled Qi (and you will) not progress unless (you) advance gradually and dig in at every step, .

On Coupling Hardness with Softness
 
Each posture, within three points, has always one point of contact. Qi, within three extremes, has always one when it is used. This is called (when) revolving, Yin turns into Yin with Yang in-between, and Yang turns into Yang with Yin in-between.

Place of contact is the place where Qi gathers and blood condensates, (to where they) move. Appropriate use of hard method (means) combining Yin and Yang (and) this benefits Qi circulation. Appropriate use of soft method does not go beyond this (either). If using only hard method Qi is seized all over the body, stagnant and not nimble. The point of contact is certainly neither fierce nor brave. If using only soft method, Qi is dispersed and not gathered and there is no place it goes to. Point of contact is not hard nor solid. (When one) should use hardness but (there is still some) softness (at the same time), then Qi does not (completely) concentrate; (When one) should use softness but (there is still some) hardness (at the same time), then Qi does not (completely) disperse.
 
(This person) has not received the secret of coupling (hardness with softness). Hence (that who is) good at using hardness and softness is like a dragonfly skimming the surface of the water; just touches it lightly and immediately flies upwards. Move Qi like a windmill, rotate and roll (it) without stopping. In this way hardness and softness are used properly. Only then one will not suffer from deficient and not firm, unsmooth, not nimble Qi.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

End of "Excerpts from 'Book on Chang Family Boxing' by Chang Naizhou - Part One"; © J.Szymanski 2000




Interessante...Difficile da realizzare tutto ciò....!
Train hard. Relax harder!

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Offline Grisù70

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2010, 11:41:49 am »
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contenuti interessantissimi

LA QUIETE

mi sovviene quando YM parlava di ZZ

non fare NULLA

in realtà tanto si compie...il nulla è tanto "fare"

poi si va avanti e presumo che si faccia di conseguenza a ciò che si evolve

per questo motivo non ho da subito trovato, pur rispettando le scelte e la passione altrui, nell'YQ ciò che è di MIO gusto

è una questione di gusti

va bò non ho detto granché...mi andava di scrivere uguale

saluti :)
Io sono un uomo libero in quanto riconosco l'umanità e la libertà di tutti gli uomini (e donne)che mi circondano. Rispettando la loro...rispetto la mia.
M. Bakunin

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Offline Yuen-Ming

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2010, 15:49:16 pm »
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contenuti interessantissimi

LA QUIETE

mi sovviene quando YM parlava di ZZ

non fare NULLA

in realtà tanto si compie...il nulla è tanto "fare"

Concetto importante in molti tipi di pratica

Fondamentale nello ZZ e nella meditazione

YM


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Offline Grisù70

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2010, 16:15:47 pm »
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altra cosa che ho colto e che PER ME ha reso possibile una più chiara visione:
sullo ZZ o meditazione...da un recente insegnamento
non affaticarsi per ore inutilmente
spontaneamente smettere anche dopo 5 min, nella gradualità rispetto a quanto è lecito arrivare, quando la "sensazione" è positiva...poi ricominciare il giorno dopo da dove hai smesso...è più funzionale alla progressione

saluti :)
Io sono un uomo libero in quanto riconosco l'umanità e la libertà di tutti gli uomini (e donne)che mi circondano. Rispettando la loro...rispetto la mia.
M. Bakunin

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Offline Yuen-Ming

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2010, 16:23:44 pm »
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altra cosa che ho colto e che PER ME ha reso possibile una più chiara visione:
sullo ZZ o meditazione...da un recente insegnamento
non affaticarsi per ore inutilmente
spontaneamente smettere anche dopo 5 min, nella gradualità rispetto a quanto è lecito arrivare, quando la "sensazione" è positiva...poi ricominciare il giorno dopo da dove hai smesso...è più funzionale alla progressione

A questo riguardo ci sono diverse scuole di pensiero: chi segue una progressione naturale e chi invece una forzata. Il secondo sistema e' piu' difficile, e piu' rischioso, ma se seguiti da un buon insegnante porta a risultati piu' velocemente.

Per esperienza devo dire che ho visto gente preparata in entrambe le scuole di pensiero e quindi credo che tutte e due siano valide.

YM

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Offline Grisù70

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2010, 16:34:00 pm »
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altra cosa che ho colto e che PER ME ha reso possibile una più chiara visione:
sullo ZZ o meditazione...da un recente insegnamento
non affaticarsi per ore inutilmente
spontaneamente smettere anche dopo 5 min, nella gradualità rispetto a quanto è lecito arrivare, quando la "sensazione" è positiva...poi ricominciare il giorno dopo da dove hai smesso...è più funzionale alla progressione

A questo riguardo ci sono diverse scuole di pensiero: chi segue una progressione naturale e chi invece una forzata. Il secondo sistema e' piu' difficile, e piu' rischioso, ma se seguiti da un buon insegnante porta a risultati piu' velocemente.

Per esperienza devo dire che ho visto gente preparata in entrambe le scuole di pensiero e quindi credo che tutte e due siano valide.

YM
grazie

 a prescindere per quel che mi riguarda mi sento di quotare questo...in generale

Zhanzhuang' e' utilizzato per rafforzare il corpo ma non puo' essere praticato agli estremi, sia praticarlo per troppo tempo sia usare troppa forza/energia non sono una buona idea.

ciao
Io sono un uomo libero in quanto riconosco l'umanità e la libertà di tutti gli uomini (e donne)che mi circondano. Rispettando la loro...rispetto la mia.
M. Bakunin

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Offline Yuen-Ming

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2010, 16:40:36 pm »
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grazie

 a prescindere per quel che mi riguarda mi sento di quotare questo...in generale

Zhanzhuang' e' utilizzato per rafforzare il corpo ma non puo' essere praticato agli estremi, sia praticarlo per troppo tempo sia usare troppa forza/energia non sono una buona idea.

E' sicuramente un punto di vista condiviso da altri

Devi considerare pero' che il testo quotato e la scuola che rappresenta NON HA scopi marziali (bensi' di coltivazione) e quindi ha una visione della cosa non necessariamente attinente ai risultati che un marzialista si propone

YM

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Iperbole

Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2010, 16:43:55 pm »
0
ot
YM una semplice curiosita' , ma tu che arte pratichi\hai praticato ?
thanks a lot
fine ot


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Offline Yuen-Ming

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2010, 16:49:12 pm »
0
ot
YM una semplice curiosita' , ma tu che arte pratichi\hai praticato ?
thanks a lot
fine ot

Yiquan  :gh:

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Iperbole

Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2010, 16:50:13 pm »
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dai seriamente!  :)

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Offline Yuen-Ming

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Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2010, 16:54:32 pm »
0

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Iperbole

Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2010, 16:55:28 pm »
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ok grazie mille,scusate l'ot  ;)

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lü dongbin

Re: "Qi" nelle AM cinesi
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2010, 17:19:55 pm »
0
YM una semplice curiosita' , ma tu che arte pratichi\hai praticato ?
Trattatelo con calma che c'ha n'età...