Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?

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Offline The Spartan

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Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« on: September 17, 2010, 17:17:22 pm »
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"Quite frankly, when it comes to the realities of staying safe in a modern urban environment, most martial arts suck -- especially strip mall schools. You will be far better served understanding crime, home security and avoiding high-risk behavior than being able to break a board with your big toe.

And yet, we are constantly asked what sort of martial arts someone should take to learn about 'self-defense.'

Self-defense
If you are looking for self-defense training, know right now, that most martial arts schools cannot offer what you are looking for.

This is because of three interrelated issues. One,  violence comes in many different levels;

from a threat display that escalates to a physical contact,
to an argument that goes physical, to a date rape,
to having to 'sit on' a quarrelsome drunk friend,
to a fight,
to a robbery,
to someone trying to kill you with a weapon,
to a SWAT team officer doing a high risk entry into a room in order to shoot an armed suspect.
They are all violence. And ALL of these have different conditions, different solutions and pose different problems. They require different levels of response.

Two, as violence is so varied, so to has to be self-defense. Because what works for one situation, doesn't work for another.

On top of that, self-defense is a much more complex issue than mere physical prowess. Commonsense, lifestyle choices, certain habits and good manners will go much further to ensure your personal safety than any fighting style. This is despite what a fast talking MA school owner will tell you as he's trying to get you to sign the contract.

Three, martial arts is training, but people mistake training for education. There is a BIG difference. Education is a generalized  introduction to many issues. Whereas training -- by its very nature -- only addresses specific conditions and problems. (e.g. that SWAT officer's high risk entry training isn't going to help him control a drunk in a bar).

You will learn very specific things in the martial arts, however, that doesn't mean you are prepared to handle all those situations we described above. Unfortunately, that isn't how martial arts are marketed. They'll tell you they are one stop shopping for ALL of your self-defense needs.

While we will address the physical effectiveness of what is being taught in a bit, you should know that a common misconception isn't! In fact, it is spot on.

Many people believe martial arts are fighting. Martial artists insist "the MA are not fighting." They do this because popular society says "Fighting is bad. Self-defense? Well, that's okay." In order to stay in business, no matter WHAT the school teaches they are going to market it as self-defense. Not only is there is a BIG difference between between fighting and self-defense, but there's a big difference between martial arts and self-defense.

Unfortunately, what most schools are teaching is in fact, based on fighting.

So What Is Self-Defense?
People  always talk about how the martial arts are good for self-sefense, but they are most often using the term inappropriately. It isn't only just that they are thinking of it in a limited context (usually based on limited personal experience), but the fact that the term has been deliberately misinterpreted and marketed. What they are talking about  when they use this term is something completely different than self-defense.

What they are usually talking about is fighting or assaultive behavior. You should also know that we have a radically different definition of "self-defense" than how most people use the term. Shockingly ours runs along the lines of:

DEFENSE, SELF-DEFENSE - A defense to certain criminal charges involving force (e.g. murder).
Use of force is justified when a person reasonably believes that it is necessary for the defense of oneself or another against the immediate use of unlawful force. However, a person must use no more force than appears reasonably necessary in the circumstances.
Force likely to cause death or great bodily harm is justified in self-defense only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm (1).


Oddly enough, that's pretty much the legal guidelines as well. Yes, it will vary from state to state, country to country, but that's the general idea. Notice that it isn't a carte blanche; there are all kinds of checks and balances about how much force you can use to 'defend' yourself. Specifically: What you can realistically and legally do when you are physically attacked without provocation.

That last sentence may seem simple, but it is an incredibly slippery slope, as so many martial artists who were arrested for "defending themselves" have found out. Truth is, the reason they were arrested is because while they thought what they had done was self-defense, it was anything but.

Self-defense is a legally defined term and it is up to YOU to meet those standards with your behavior, not create your own standards and call it self-defense as so many do. Yet, that is not what you are going to hear from the instructor who got you to sign the contract.

But realize when we talk about self-defense, we are referring to a small aspect of a larger personal safety strategy. A strategy that self-defense is a small subset of a bigger picture. At the very best, we look at physical self-defense as damage control. And no damage control is ever as good as not getting into the situation in the first place.

Unfortunately, what martial arts teach as self-defense, is not just damage control, but of questionable effectiveness at that.

Do They Even Work?
Not only does the subject of self-defense involve much more than physical motion, but -- in an overwhelming majority of cases -- the physical movement these schools do teach have been watered down for safety in sport competitions.

And yes, most martial arts have become martial sports -- regardless of what combative history or self-defense use they claim. Unfortunately, as there is a big difference between fighting and self-defense, there's also a big difference between sport fighting and defensive movement.

Recognize that sport movement is designed for two elements:
    1) To ensure the safety of the participants
    2) To extend the match for the enjoyment of the audience.

That is NOT to say that these aren't powerful moves. They are, but at the same time there is a built in safety factor. What we are saying is that the kind of movement done in sports competition is not designed to created the physics that create immediate damage to another human. By this we're not talking inflicting pain. We're talking about breaking something in the attacker to end the attack.

Sports fighting operates on the idea of victory through the collective -- whether it be collective damage or points. That is to say multiple attacks. Point sparring -- where each hit is worth points -- is a race to see who can either get the most points in a limited time or a race to a number of points. In full contact systems the idea is to create collective soft tissue damage and exhaustion until your opponent cannot continue or submits. Although 'knock outs' are the ultimate indicator of this, these are rare.

To once again bring up the idea that the average person is correct about what they think martial arts are about, take this test. Imagine the participants of one of these sporting events. First put them in normal clothing. Second, take the event out of the ring and super-impose it on the backdrop of the last bar you were in.

Then ask yourself ... is that self-defense or fighting?

Do this knowing that is exactly what the security cameras, the witnesses, the prosecuting attorney, the judge and the jury are going to see. Moreover, that's the question, those other people are going to be asking when they see the video of you using your martial arts training.

Let's take another look at the purposes of sporting styles, especially the part about extending the match. Take the shortest sports bout you have ever seen, do you want it to take that long before it is effective against a 250 biker with a knife? Or do you think he'd win in that time?

Our standard for an effective self-defense strategy is that it gets you out of danger in three moves or less (under five seconds is another way of looking at it). If it can't do that (or doesn't teach that) then it is a sports style that someone is trying to sell as self-defense.

Are there martial arts schools that still teach effective movement? Movement that you can use to defend yourself with? Yes. But even then, that teaching isn't likely to cover the legal and psychological aspects of self-defense. But finding them can be difficult.

Are You Helpless?
Upon hearing all of this you might think:
    A) The martial arts are useless
    B) We're against martial arts training

Nothing could be further from the truth. The fact is ANY martial art style can be used for self-defense.

That is if your idea of self-defense is to block and extract yourself from danger. It's when you start trying to make them work for other goals  that things begin to deteriorate. This is especially true if you start calling those other things 'self-defense' (such as fighting).

Do we recommend people have some kind of physical training? Well, it's not a bad idea. It's like having jumper cables, a spare tire and a jack in your car is a good idea. Hopefully you'll never need it, but just in case. But to get this training you don't have to sign up for a three year contract. You can get some training in short bouts and when combined with personal safety strategies it's often enough to keep you safe.

When it comes to studying the martial arts we have a saying: People come to the martial arts for self-defense. They stay for many other reasons. If you're looking for some other things in your life, then maybe the martial arts are worth investigating. But we're not going to tell you that the martial arts are for everyone, because they aren't. But for those who get something from them, they are spectacular.

However, if you're only interested in learning self-defense, then save your money because long term studying isn't what you're looking for. In fact, most people who we've spoken to who dropped out of the martial arts, tell us it was because they were disappointed in what they were being taught ... because, although they were told it was, they weren't being taught what they had come there to learn.

While there are many benefits to be gained from the study of the martial arts, unfortunately, due to commercialism, self-defense really isn't one of them. When it come to that, physical ability is only a small part of your overall strategy.

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1) Notice the two important words there "immediate" and "harm." Immediate means that, you're about to be attacked NOW! Not threatened, not intimidated, not insulted, not your feelings hurt, not scared, but about to be physically attacked. The other important word is 'harm' That's an important term because it implies not pain, but intense -- if not permanent -- physical injury. A fat lip hurts, but it is not harm. Yet, this is the kind of stuff you will NOT be taught in most martial arts schools. By instructors who claim to teach you self-defense.
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Offline The Spartan

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2010, 17:21:21 pm »
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Spero che tutti abbiano un minimo di dimestichezza con l'inglese.
Eventuali traduzioni lunedì.

:D
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Offline cooks71

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2010, 17:24:18 pm »
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Questo estratto fanno molto Kelly Mcann...
"Great things have small beginnings, sir."
Lawrence Of Arabia (1962)

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Offline The Spartan

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2010, 17:28:29 pm »
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Fuochino...
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Wa No Seishin

Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2010, 17:35:57 pm »
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P&P


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Offline Gargoyle

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2010, 17:43:26 pm »
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ehm... aspetto lunedì
Improvvisare, adattarsi e raggiungere lo scopo.

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Offline Diego

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2010, 17:51:03 pm »
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Questo estratto fa molto Marc “Animal” McYoung.  :D

In generale alcune sue considerazioni sono molto interessanti, altre mi sembrano generalizzazioni che cercano di portare acqua al suo mulino o acquirenti alla pagina dove poter ordinare i suoi libri o i suoi seminari.     

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Offline Ethan

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2010, 20:35:10 pm »
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Concordo con i 3/4 del testo.
Inutile entrare nel "chi fa cosa",ma è vero che le am non sono dp se questa è prima di tutto prevenzione.


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Offline The Spartan

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2010, 21:22:54 pm »
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Punto focale centrato... ;)
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machine gun yogin

Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2010, 21:57:22 pm »
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Articolo interessante.
Tempo fa aprii un 3d sul perché fare AM.

Le risposte erano le piu disparate, ma la difesa personale era la meno gettonata.

Questo mi fa capire che le persone sanno che le am non servono a molto nella difesa personale, intesa come situazione ad alto rischio, imprevista e di svariate tipologie.
Ricordo che le risposte erano piu indirizzate al fatto che uno facesse am per scaricare lo stress, per divertirsi dopo una giornata di merda al lavoro, per percorso spirituale, per migliorare fisicamente e psicologicamente, nonché spiritualmente.
Pochissimi risposero per difesa personale.

Poi é interessante il discorso sport da combattimento.

Addirittura sembrano essere ancora meno efficaci delle arti marziali, e se ci pensiamo in effetti non hanno le caratteristiche per far parte di un protocollo per la difesa personale.

Insomma le AM sono un compomesso malriuscito tra tutta una serie di cose.

Allora dico io:

Se ti interessa la DP fai una disciplina come KM oppure Systema, che é specifico per questo scopo.

Se ti interessa il lato spirituale e l'evoluzione inetriore fai yoga, meditazione e pratiche esoteriche.

Se ti interessa il miglioramento fisico vai in palestra, fai del training intelligente con dei PT preparati, oppure fai yoga.

Insomma sembrerebbe non esserci molto senso nel fare arti marziali.

Quindi perché ci sono persone che le fanno?

Semplicemente piacciono!


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Wa No Seishin

Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2010, 22:02:49 pm »
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Se ti interessa la DP fai una disciplina come KM oppure Systema, che é specifico per questo scopo.

:-\

Il Systema è collocabile tra la DP?

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machine gun yogin

Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2010, 22:04:08 pm »
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Beh bisognerebbe distingue cosa sono le am e cosa sono i sistemi di difesa personale perima di tutto.

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Wa No Seishin

Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2010, 22:07:08 pm »
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Non so, hai scritto tu che Systema è DP.

Mai praticato e solo visto sul Tubo, ma la parte di "prevenzione" mi sfugge...

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Offline Gargoyle

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2010, 08:59:33 am »
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beh dai... guardando sul tubo anche nel KM non si capisce cosa ci sia di prevenzione

comunque anche io, nella mia testa colloco il Systema fra i metodi moderni di DP, anche se forse fra tutti i recenti metodi, è quello che più si rifà ad una cultura e filosofia marziale classica...

ecco, ora mi hai messo il dubbio!  >:(
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Offline The Spartan

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Re: Le arti marziali sono difesa personale?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2010, 09:12:21 am »
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Anche se ancora nn si è capito che peso abbia nel Systema quello che viene definito nell'articolo "long term studying"...
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